The Trouble with Tookie

[Janette]

It is with trepidation that I post something that has been troubling me now for weeks. In the last couple of months Tookie has started to pluck himself and I have had to take him to the avian vet (about half an hours drive away in Wollongong). He has had full blood tests and they checked his droppings. They kept him overnight for a thorough examination. $185.00 later I am told what I already know - it is psychological and not physical so far as they can see.

I feel slightly ashamed and guilty. I never ever imagined that a bird I could own would ever develop this kind of emotional problem. I pride myself on giving my birds a full, healthy life, giving them all love, good food, toys, full flight with enough time out and attention and hoping that they are happy living in our flock. For Tookie, it seems he is expressing his dissatisfaction with life at the moment. Most birds that pluck that I have read about either live in an abusive environment or have been rehomed from one. Hence the shame. :( I have been awake at night wondering what to do.

The advice from the vet is to provide more foraging experiences for him. I have an Avian Adventures recreation centre at one end of the house, and a Parrot Tower at the other, with another playgym on top of Spikes cage, and a portable perch on the kitchen bench. So I have planted more food in different places, and hidden chewing things in his cage. I have also moved some cages around. No change yet. I try to distract him when I see him stopping to groom himself. He has lots of toys in his cage and on each playgym. He has lots of chew things because he does like to chew wood. He gets fresh veges every day (but does not eat alot). He does eat his pellets though.

Tookie is very close to the budgies, who follow him around and compete with each other for his attention. Lately, Tookie has become quite aggressive, especially to Spike and even to Cosmo. My vet said he thought Tookie sounded like a female rather than a male. All of the birds are out with free flight through the house (this is a large expanse) for 1-2 hours in the morning. I usually get the conures and Spike out at lunch time for awhile and then the three of then come out for another couple of hours in the afternoon/evening. This is all I can manage because I have to supervise them all when they are out. They keep themselves occupied flying from one gym to the next, running around the floor, over the sofas, following me around the kitchen. Foraging is all they seem to do. Spike and Cosmo are the ones who seek out us humans. Tookie is much more reserved (always has been abit uptight) and has never been really friendly. He will step up and goes to and from his cage with no problems. He can be a little aggressive with others (has bitten Kate and my husband) but we are working on that. He has never flown to me in his life. When he is in his cage and he wants to come out he bobs up and down furiously, something which has trouble me for some time. Even when he gets out he does the bobbing thing. Sometimes when Cosmo is on Kate, he bob furiously, and I swear he really wants to bite her to get Cosmo away from her (he doesnt like Kate much). My sister doesn't get him out when she stays here because he bites her. He doesn't bite me, I think he actually likes me and respects me most.

My vet said that getting him/her a mate is not the answer. They might not get along anyway. I don't want to breed. I also explained to him that Tookie had been in an outdoor aviary with his siblings for about four weeks before I got him when he was 12 weeks old. The vet said that this was a very formative time for a bird and that this experience has shaped his personality alot, and for whatever reason he is not happy in our home environment and if changes I make don't improve the situation he may be happier in an aviary environment.

So there you have it. I am very said to fess up but there you go. Here is a picture of Tookie and he looks fine when I took this in December last year. He looks abit shabby now though. He is not completely plucked but his tummy is a little bare and he has hacked at underneath his wings too. Sigh................ sorry for the long post. I feel so sad :cry:

[Emily]

:hug So sorry, Janette.

I'd suggest getting Tookie DNA'd. If he is really a she, it could be hormonal plucking, especially if the plucking is regulated to the chest and under wing area.

[mobetta]

Janette im so sorry to hear things arent going well with Tookie and I agree with Emily it could be hormonal plucking if he is really a she. Dont be so hard on yourself you have done EVERYTHING you can do to try to figure out what could be wrong with him without going to the vet and as your last resort thats what you had to do. This by no means does not make you a bad "parront" I of anybody know you and how much you love those birds and take such good care of them and I have no doubt in my mind that this is not due to anything you have done or could have prevented. like I said I agree with Emily get Toookie DNA'd and that may explain alot. :hug :hug

[jacqqui]

Janette,

I am so glad that you did say something. You should have no shame about something like this. Think about how Dr Pepperberg must have felt when Alex died. She devoted her life to her boy and he died suddenly. Sometimes things happen and it is not your fault.
Don't beat yourself up. You love Tookie and you are doing everything you can to make him happy. Have the other birds changed their behavior towards him/her?

I would go on and have Tookie sex tested so you do have an idea of that aspect of things. I am sure you ruled out all of the food related things. Does the Hemp affect Conures? Does Tookie have any in his food?

I will be praying for you and Tookie.

[Janette]

Thanks for the responses. Tookie does not seem to be responding, I think I am going to have to make much more sweeping changes to our routine/set-up before he is able to change. His behaviour is a response to something that is bothering him somehow. His relationship with the budgies is the same as ever (they fawn over him the whole time they are out and he allows them to groom/feed him). They are devoted to him. It's actually quite amusing to see the way Bibby chases Bubby away. A budgies work is never done! Tookie seems happiest when he is with the budgies but I cannot house them in the same cage because he could hurt a budgie if he was aggressive. Also when Tookie has been in their cage the budgies go absolutely nuts and really start fighting each other over him. Crazy budgies.

He and Cosmo on the other hand, get along most of the time but every now and then when they have been out together for awhile, Tookie can be quite aggressive with Cosmo and Cosmo kind of says "I'm out of here!" and comes and hangs with the hoomans. So if he is a male I can understand that maybe he is acting out his frustration because he wants Cosmo to be his mate?? But if he is a female, I would have thought that Cosmo and Tookie would have mate-bonded by now (Cosmo has been here for over a year). Maybe Cosmo is saving himself for marriage.

The parrots eat Hagen's tropican pellets (the small ones). I haven't got a packet because I have my supply in a plastic container and didnt keep the package to check if there is hemp in it. Tookie has been eating them for two years with no problem.

I am currently working on a better solution for all the birds. We have just bought some land and we are designing a new home. I am going to have a bird room with an outdoor flight area attached. This will give me the opportunity to make Tookie much more satisfied with life and allow the birds to be out most of the time. Of course, Spike will always have to be supervised but it opens a whole new world to me. I just hope that I can divert Tookie from his plucking between now and then because it may be a year before I have the bird room.

[pitufina73]

hi Janette sorry that Tokkie is going thru this, i have a question, how old is Tokkie?

im asking it because i have GCC female she is only 1 year and 3 months and like everyone else i am worry that someday she will lay me eggs or pluck herself and i would like to know how to prevent it from happening. i was thinking in adding another GCC but im not sure if this is going to make it worst.

[Janette]

Tookie is 2 yrs and six months old. He is the opposite personality to Cosmo.

Egg laying is something that can be avoided by ensuring that your bird gets 10-12 hours of darkness to sleep at night, not too much petting etc when she is hormonal and not allowing her to find nesting sites and never give her a nest box. Conures need to sleep in something though (not a box) but they like to sleep in a happy hut or something similiar. Cockatiels and budgies are notorious for egg laying, but I don't know about conures in this regard.

As far as plucking goes, I am really at a loss as to why this has happened to poor Tookie. If you add another GCC of the opposite sex and they like each other, they will bond like mates (only natural) and not need so much human interaction and you will have to work at it to keep your bird really tame to you. Tookie and Cosmo (supposedly both males) get along most of the time but I could not house them in the same cage. You need to ask yourself why you want to add another bird.

I am desperately trying to find out what is bothering Tookie so that I can fix it for him. I am thinking that he is suffering separation anxiety when he is not with his budgies????? Having Spike around also may be stressful for him because he feels he has to protect the budgies from him??

How did having little birds become so complicated??

[Janette]

Here is a photo (not a very good one) of Tookie probably in his worst state. That is Bubby next to him. He was worse after we went away but is a little better than in this photo at the moment. His chest feathers are growing back in a little, his eye is healing (boy that Cosmo really packs a punch) and he seems a little happier. His wings are still quite badly chewed though.

Since I have been back, I have been experimenting with putting bits of millet in places (Tookies fav treat) for him to eat while hanging upsidedown etc. and I have found him/her to be much happier if he has one of his budgies to share his cage at night time, so I let Bibby and Bubby take turns as to who gets to sleep with him at night. He hasn't hurt either of his budgies and he seems particularly close to Bibby at the moment. But like I said they take turns with him. A budgie's got to do what a budgies got to do. To them he is the sexiest green budgie they have ever known. I swear that Bibby is swooping by Spike to say "stay away from my chick you big stupid fat head!". I'm standing there with Spike and he lands on my shoulder screams at Spike (which in budgie is not very loud) and waits for Spike to crawl up my arm and lunge at him before he flies off, back to Tookie so he can say "Hey baby, did you see that?" I swear it's true. I hold onto Spike's toes and hold him back sometimes. Tubby Bubby can only look on in awe at his brothers brave deeds.

So I am hopeful that Tookie is going to keep improving. His eye is heaps better now. He also snuggles up to the little furry thing that I attached to the side of his cage. When I uncover the birds in the morning, he is next to it with a budgie on the other side. Tookie is still hand tame and gives kisses for a sunflower seed. He even landed on my shoulder today and stayed there for awhile.

[Emily]

Janette I know you are worried about Tookie plucking, but I have to say. If that is the absolute worst he has ever been, that is amazing. Seriously, that is wonderful. Why? Its pretty regulated to one area, and he hasn't gone past the down. Now, if they start pulling the down out, that is when you have to worry about follicle damage and all.

Even with his undergarmets showing (lol) he is the cutest greencheek I've ever seen!

[Janette]

Thank you Emily, he is actually looking better each day, as almost all his/her chest feathers are coming back in. He is still a little fluffy looking on his legs, but his wings still look bad. He is still chewing at them so they don't seem to be coming back like the rest of him.

Is it common for females to chew just their wings and why do they do that in your experience?

Tookie and Cosmo had another stoush today :catfight Luckily nobody got hurt. Little green monsters.

[Emily]

Females normally tend to chew a brood patch on their chest. I don't know about the wings, honestly. If you clipped your birds I'd probably suggest that the clip was uncomfortable, maybe a shaft was poking into her 'armpit' area so she was chewing trying to make it more comfortable. But all your guys are flighted so :conf

[Janette]

I'm happy to say that Tookie seems to be improving. Since I have been allowing a budgie to bunk with him (each in turn, so I make sure they get enough to eat and rest in their own cage) he has stopped plucking his chest altogether. They can't both share with Tookie because the budgie boys spend the whole time fighting each other. Tookie is almost completely recovered in lovely maroon feathers on his tummy. Under his wings and a patch on his shoulders is still plucked. But down feathers are still there. He and Cosmo still are not besties any more. If the budgies are out Tookie completely ignores Cosmo. If they are not, he sucks up to Cosmo asking for him to groom him and gets cranky if he stops. The rest of the time they take turns in chasing Spike away. I think this may be stressful for Tookie as well as he is very aggressive with Spike. Cosmo treats it like a game or something to amuse him but Tookie is serious.

Maybe Tookie is really Tookina (Bubbles thought of that name) and now its coming into winter she has given up the idea of nesting.

[sweetpeaches]

janette,
so glad to hear tookie is doing better. must make you feel better too! hope things continue in this direction. it's tough when our "fids" have issues..whether physical or emotional.

[jacqqui]

Ahhh..nothing a Budgie cant fix!!!

I am glad he is doing better. I am sure you are feeling a bit relieved. Maybe it will just be a seasonal thing. I hope it will not come back.

[Holly-Noelle]

I'm very happy for you that Took is doing so much better! Budgie Buddies to the rescue!

[Maia'sMom]

Great news on Tookie!!

[Janette]

Well, Tookie was going so well but then he started chewing his wings really badly. One morning one of his wings was actually bleeding as he had mutilated himself. I was so upset I took another visit to our vet (avian specialist Mike Cannon - has written books here in Australia). Spent alot of time talking to him. The bottom line is that Tookie is not happy in his current situation and his anxiety is being expressed in his plucking habit which has now escalated to hurting himself. It becomes a habit. While I was there I also had a blood DNA test where they send the blood to South Africa and he took blood from Tookies jugular veing for accuracy.

Well this last week the results came back. Tookie is in fact a boy!! So now I am even more puzzled at his behaviour. Mind you, he has stopped plucking himself altogether again and his wings have grown down and are re-feathering. I just don't know when he might start again.

I really think that Spike is his biggest problem. How do you explain that to a caique? I am doing my best to manage Tookie and make him happier until I am able to provide him with a completely separate outdoor flight area so he won't have to deal with a caique all the time. Life is complicated. I am putting camomile in his water but I don't know if I can contribute the success to that, but I will keep using it anyway. Maybe I could put some in Spikes water.......................

[Parrotdise]

Hi Janette,

Probiotics also help with stressful situations. I know there's an avian specific brand in Austrailia but I don't have the name of it. In the US & Canada there's a product called Avi-Culture. You can read about the benefits on their website by the same name. I have a customer that swears by Avi-Culture and said his Grey stopped plucking after being on it a few weeks. You can also use yogurt from a health food store. Since Tookie is on Hagen pellets I highly recommend a probiotic daily. Those pellets are very high in sugar in the form of banana oil and if there's any yeast building up the sugar simply adds to the problem. Adding probiotics will only improve your birds diet. A better pellet would be Harrison's or Roudybush. You also have Dr Mac available which is one of the best pellets.

Although chewing a wing doesn't sound like a parasite problem it can still exist. I'm sure the vet would have checked as this is one cause of plucking. There are some parasites too small to see through a normal microscope and can be missed in tests. Our birds can get guardia from normal tap water. A natural solution is to add a piece of calamyna fig as a treat ever other day. The figs will purge the body of parasite and it also nutralizes the intestinal tract similar to probiotics. Unfortunately most figs are designed for human consumption and likely much sweeter than what our birds would find in the wild, however if we avoid sugar in other foods especially pellets, a little fig every other day is of great benefit.

[Chelle]

I have a conure who plucks, - thanks for this info Kathleen.

[Emily]

Janette if you are also going the herbal route for trying to help Tookie, I suggest Bach Flower Remedies, I don't know if they are available in your neck of the woods, but it can't hurt to try. My friend sent me one when she heard about my female caique that plucks.. I do use it daily on her and also sometimes on my male when he is just grating on my nerves, screaming, not playing, being a little pig LOL and it does seem to help.